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     Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 413 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141  Rating: N/A |
Goats can get polio from ANYTHING that may cause the rumen microbes to die off too quickly. Moldy feed, moldy hay, corn can be a major culprit as the mold can hide on the inside of the kernel and it is high in sugar and starch (goats don't need alot of corn it is just empty calories a cheap way to fatten them for market),some medications (CoRid, a coccidiastat is a major culprit), giving oral antibiotics, giving long term antibiotics in high doses, a goat going off feed (and thus starving his rumen microbes), high sugar or starch diet, a sudden change of diet, eating too much....My first goat in 15 years got polio from eating the old leaves out of the yard, probably got a mouthful of moldy ones and pig that he is ate them rather than spit them out. The first signs are a slightly wobbly gait or a goat who doesn't come running quite as fast. Bricklin acted a little lost at feeding time (not like him at all) and within 20 minutes from that was very wobbly, drunken acting. I started him on the Fortified B Complex immediately, as it can't hurt if its NOT polio. The dose is 10 MG (milligrams) not ML (millileters which is the same as CCs). That comes out to about 5 mg/pound (2.2 pounds in a killigram). And yes even with an organic diet you still have to be concerned about polio! Just because it is grown organically doesn't necessarily make it high quality, believe me! I deal with both organically grown and regular produce and foods in my job as chef. I send back just as much of the organic stuff as I do the regular stuff due to poor quality. Yes they can have permanent brain damage after polio. Bricklin is pretty much back to his old self but it has been more than a month after we stopped treatment. The brain and nervous system has an amazing capacity to set up new pathways when old ones are destroyed. The vinegar trick in the water was originally started for show goats. It flavors the water masking any odd taste for when they are away from home. It will acidify the rumen (not necessarily a good thing) but does little to acidify the urine. Your high mineral water is more likely to give you problems with balancing minerals than with preventing or causing polio. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| L. Straszewski (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 207.69.139.149 Rating: N/A |
Thought I'd add a little and up date on my goat. Water. May not be the source of this change who knows for absolute. But we have very heavy minerals in water, especially iron. I do know some sulfur is important. The water was turning my husband's teeth grey, and this is running through a general house water filter sediment system. Also the same water the goats are getting. And thanks for the reminder about letting the water sit. . .does help some with most things in the water. Which I do most of the time. I do worry about urinary culculi though with trying to go organic. . .would apple cider vinegar work? Dosage? polio. What are the common sources of this challenge? And typical time between animal having a problem and us actually seeing the animal has a problem? It was recommended to me at Thiamine 10ml per kilogram each 6 hrs; 4hrs if really severe. with follow up for B complex for at least a week since they all work together. My goat recieved the above B1 treatment for 5 days. Went into blindness and out in about 1 1/2 days after treatment had started. He still isn't 100%. So, would there be any brain cell damage through the swelling causing the blindness that would contribute to this. . .or am I missing something? Can't currently run the B complex. I'm out and I'm snowed in! I don't know how much B1 in in kelp but had some organic kelp that I offered him a couple days after arrival. That offered free choice along with the regular Purina minerals he shoveled right into it. Offered seperately of course. He probably ate 5 teaspoons or more! Shocked me! And speaking of mold. Opened two bags of new feed and found mold! Haven't fed thankfully! But I have a doe that just freshened on Saturday and all I have, besides mixed grass hay is beet pulp, rolled barley, rolled oats, sunflower seeds, and a little corn. AND I'm snowed in! May not be able to get any workable feed for nearly week! | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 390 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
Try raising the dose of thiamin. The Goat Medicine textbook by Mary Smith, DVM, recommends 5 mg/pound every 6 hours the first day then twice a day for 5 to 7 more days. Most antibiotics have to be given at higher than the horse or cattle dose to goats too, due to their much higher metabolism. It has been a year for polio. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| Cindy Hance New member Username: chance Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 65.255.132.151 Rating: N/A |
Just wanted to let you know what just happened to us. Noticed doe was weak, walking slow, running from others, wouldn't let us touch her anymore. Vet thought anemia due to sluggishness. Dewormed, no better. Called back and he said probably polio. Now medicating with 2cc thiamine IM for 5 days plus 10CC antibotic SQ every 3 days. She seems to be getting better slowly. We can only find the reason to be moldy hay. we purchased hay and thought we had removed the small amount of mold that was located on the side but maybe we missed some at some point. We have 11 eating from the same hay and she is the only one to come down with it. She may just be more suspectible. Hopefully she will make full recovery in a few days. Hope things go well for you! Cindy | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 389 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
I wouldn't go blaming the water too fast. It hasn't caused a problem before and it has been a very bad year for polio. I had a goat get it because he likes to eat leaves. And with our rather mild wet winter the leaves are a bit more moldy than usual, so he got polio. It is our first case in over 15 years but this is the mildest winter we've had since we started raising goats 15 years ago. We had really stinky sulfur water at a girl scout camp I used to go to, but if we let it sit out overnight most of the sulfur would dissapate and the water would taste fine. You might try this...SUlfur is a very necessary mineral for joint, bone and tissue health, most animals and people really don't get enough... Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| L. Straszewski (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 66.19.139.36 Rating: N/A |
Ran into crisis this weekend. Long story short Polio Enceph. (however you say/spell it), Thiamine deficiency. After two days of no response and then goat actually going into blindness in one eye (after 2 days of treatment), the third day we had response. Talked to 3 different people and no one could figure out how this happened. Prayed and found MOnday morning a news clip in an old Rumination magazine, "High Sulfur Intake Can Lead to Poliomalacia". Originally published in the "Bovine Practitioner". Study suggests that can be caused by ingestions of high levels of sulfar--either through water consumption (US!) or grain--with normal thiamine levels. We beleive this is dead on the money! We have very very high sulfur in our water; high iron, rust, etc. Everyone is on this water. It is still very high after a general household water filter has been installed and running goat water supply through this filtration. We have lived here about 2 months now. Will be talking to vet this morning in hopes of bringing this boy back home today. However, very concerned it will happen all over again, or happen with other animals--have pregnant ones too. This water and then eating grass hay, a little alfalfa pellets and a touch of rolled barley with beet pulp and minerals. Now i'm afraid of what to feed this guy (about one year old) and not being able to get the water situation taken care of before another. . .crisis! Anything else I need to be aware of in bringing this boy home and how long the Thiamine treatment really needs to last????? Or what I still need to watch for. . .we aren't in the clear yet. HELP! How do we address this before more trouble! Can't seem to find water filters to address this either! |