| Author | Message | ||
     Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 1763 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.242.73  Rating: N/A |
Well it would depend on whether this is a freemartin or a hermaphrodite. Freemartins are not an inherited trait. But even if it is a hermaphrodite it is unlikely this will occur again. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| Theresa Chandler New member Username: tchandler6 Post Number: 122 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 207.69.137.9 Rating: N/A |
Do you know if this is in any way hereditary? What is the likelihood of the mating of this doe or this buck throwing another hermaphrodite? | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 1760 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.242.73 Rating: N/A |
Freemartinism only affects females. Most freemartin goats have more than one birth brother (but not always). I had a freemartin years ago, awesome looking doe, great muscling and bone, teeny tiny underdevloped teats as a yearling and that's what gave it away initially. Her vagina was only about an inch deep it just went as far as the urethral opening she had no uterus or ovaries. In a normal kid the vagina is about 3 inches long, in a freemartin or hermaphrodite it is about 1 inch or less. She could be a freemartin or a hermaphrodite, either way the result is the same, she is sterile. Freemartins and hermaphrodites are genetically female, Freemartins start out as female but because they are effected by the male hormones of their brother they wind up with both male and female genes. The polled to polled breeding causing increased cases of hermaphrodism is well documented in dairy breeds originating in western Europe, probably does not apply to many other breeds. The recessive gene responsible for causing this is linked to natural polledness in these dairy goats but it is not shown to be linked to polledness in other breeds. The polled intersex is not reported in the Nubian breed. Hermaphrodites can have either internal or external gonads as well as exhibiting a vulva and sometimes a penis. They will most often develop buckish characteristics such as heavier muscling and a buck scent. They are sterile and make good heat indicators. She could be useful yet! It is not a sore, you can stop the iodine. The alcohol in it can be very irritating. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| Theresa Chandler New member Username: tchandler6 Post Number: 120 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 207.69.137.6 Rating: N/A |
Maggie, This makes sense. I guess that in a normal doe there should have been more inside the vaginal opening? This doe does have a brother born from this kidding, also. So, is there a liklihood that he is also not breedable? I was going to wether him anyway for 4-H project, but possibly I need to do the same with the doe. Pity!! She is adorable. I do not ever use the does for 4-H projects, as they are fullblooded and I usually keep them or sell them as breeding does. I bred this doe to a different buck, this time. Is there any possibility that it could be hereditary in the buck's genes? I have another doe that kidded out of this same buck breeding, her kids seem fine, the buck is absolutely awesome, heavy with muscle. Would it be a bad thing to keep or sell him as a breeding buck? Thanks, Theresa | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 1756 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.242.73 Rating: N/A |
Freemartins are a different kind of unisex. They have to have at least one same birth brother. Freemartins happen when a male and female fetus share the same placenta and mix hormones. The testosterone from a male fetus disrupts the development of the female's sexual organs. With this you definitely get a short vagina that goes nowhere (no uterus and no ovaries) and her teats will remain small and she will not come into heat (no ovaries no estrogen). Hermaphrodites can come from any union, it is said that breeding TWO polled goat to each other increases the likelihood of this, but some studies refute this. A hermaphrodite may have the sexual organs or some of remnants of the sexual organs of both male and female. They often have both ovaries and tesicles but they are inside the body... Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| Theresa Chandler New member Username: tchandler6 Post Number: 119 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 207.69.137.24 Rating: N/A |
Barbara, I put some lubricant on the end of the pencil and got it in about 3/4 to 1 inch, before I felt a wall of sorts. I don't know what would be normal; but she is only 8 days old today. I put some iodine on the pea shape and when I check her each day I peel off a scabbing. (Putting the iodine on just in case it is a sore.) Thanks, Theresa | ||
| Theresa Chandler New member Username: tchandler6 Post Number: 118 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 207.69.137.26 Rating: N/A |
Barbara, If I come on a solid wall, does that mean she is a unisex doe? If no wall, she may be ok? If she is a unisex, this will be my very first encounter ever with such a goat. Her mother has had 3 sets of kids, counting this kidding. All fine. Thanks for the input. Also, I have ordered some 50% dextrose from Jeffers. It says to be used IV only. Is this the correct dextrose that I have read to give orally to newborns for a boost of energy? Theresa | ||
| Barbara Howard Advanced Member Username: bhoward Post Number: 189 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 208.135.164.43 Rating: N/A |
Being from two horned goats this should not have been Unisex but it is not an exact science. Sometimes they won't have the little pea size thing on the vulva but they will be free martins. Take a rubber tip pencil and insert it into the vagina see if you come up against a solid wall. Barbara Howard Capri-Medic jamesa@mrtc.com 606-522-3388 KY | ||
| Theresa Chandler New member Username: tchandler6 Post Number: 117 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 207.69.137.43 Rating: N/A |
This doeling is from 2 horned goats. Both fullblood boers. Thanks for the info. I will definitely have her looked at by my vet before any definite decisions are made about whether I keep her or not. Theresa | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 1734 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.242.73 Rating: N/A |
Yes this does look like a hermaphrodite (the proper name for a unisex). It can occur with any mating and is said to happen slightly more often when 2 naturally polled animals are bred to each other, but some studies refute this. She could make a splendid cart or pack goat acting much like a wether. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| sandylogan New member Username: sandylogan Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 216.153.74.25 Rating: N/A |
polled to horned breeding is not the case 100% of the time to have unisex female does. I have two coming 12 year old does that I raised from birth and their dam was polled and sire was horned.. They both have had kids earlier in their lives, but retired now for several years..I have never breed polled to polled. But I have seen unisex does before and they will not breed ever, so i'm told.. I have a friend that has a 8 year old unisex doe as a pet only and she never comes in heat she said. I guess you could say she acts like a spayed doe. She's the sweetest and most loving doe I have ever seen. I seen a beautiful fawn colored doe about 4 or 5 months old at a sale barn many, many years ago and upon checking her closer she was a unisex doe, that was the first one I had seen. I'm at work right now and don't have access to my Goat Medicine book by Mary C. Smith to give you the correct name of the condition, but I would have to say thats what you have there. If you don't decide to keep her I wish you luck on finding her a home. I wish I lived close to you I would be glad to take her and give her a home. Most are sold at sale barns and no ones going to buy her if they know she unisex. Sandy | ||
| Alex Cripps New member Username: hazydaynubians Post Number: 91 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 142.167.6.213  Rating: N/A |
Is her dam or sire polled? if you mix a polled and a horned they will have unisex kids if you need more info call a vet Alex Cripps Hazy Day Nubians raising Nubians, Boers, Indian Runner Ducks www.hazydaynubians.piczo.com Apohaqui New Brunswick Canada | ||
| Theresa Chandler New member Username: tchandler6 Post Number: 116 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 207.69.137.39 Rating: N/A |
I have a doeling that was just born on Sunday morning. She has a growth of some sort on her vulva. I am hoping this is just where she might have gotten stepped on or something and it will go away with time. Does anyone know what a unisex goat looks like or the results of such? I am trying to post a picture of what it looks like, if anyone has any ideas. Thanks, Theresa  |