| Author | Message | ||
     Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 1673 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 72.185.188.253  Rating: N/A |
The CMPK tastes pretty bad and can burn a bit, so the gagging and spitting is pretty much normal. if she were mine I would keep her on 2 to 4 times a day dosing of the CMPK, the sheep dosage is appropriate. Be sure you do not tip her head back when drenching, just raise the nose up a little past level, this will reduce the gagging. Get the CMPK far back on the tongue too, a mouthful of the stuff tastes awful. Have you looked at teh color of her lower inner eyelids? Even through all of this she should have deep pinkish red membranes. If not then she is wormy and the ivermectin may not be working anymore. The current recommendations for treating digestive parasites is to give at least 3 times the cattle dose by weight and give it orally. I like to use the injectable as an oral drench because it is highly concentrated and you give a much smaller dose. Ivermectin is considerd safe even at 25 times the recommended dose, be sure you give enough. If you need to switch dewormers it is best to also switch the family of dewormers too. Cydectin is in the same family as ivermectin. So I would switch to either valbazen or synanthic if the ivermectin is not working. Drying her off would probably be a relief. Milk production is quite a drain on her system. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| Elaine Elder New member Username: elaine Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.152.162.89 Rating: N/A |
I don't think you have deer worm but Vitamin B shots help boost immune system and the body sheds any excess so it will not become toxic. Vitamin B is also good for Goat polio, which is sometimes a by product issue of a lot of other disorders. So give B shots until she gets better. Also when they go off feed or change their diet in any way or sometimes antibiotics will upset the rumen and cause a whole new set of problems. Use Probios to keep the right balance of microbes in her stomach and Nutridrench to try to get her the vitamins she needs to recover. I have had sick goats with odd symptoms and I always start Vitamin B shots under the skin as soon as I see they are in distress. Some times I never know what was wrong with them, they just get over it. Go to this website for a lot of good information http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/goatoverview.html Go all the way to bottom 1/3 of webpage There is a complete listing of goat problems Good Luck | ||
| Janette Cross New member Username: janettecross Post Number: 44 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 216.61.238.129 Rating: N/A |
No, she isn't showing any of the symptoms that you mention. Deer worm was mentioned on a different post and it hit me that she was having neurological symptoms so I freaked out and posted on 911 to find out what to do. So, I don't think that it's deer worm. She is at least 5 years old. She kidded last January and I started to milk her in April. I am drying her off and I started the CMPK yesterday, one time with one ounce (the sheep dosage). As I said in an earlier post she gagged,spit ect and I was hoping that maybe an ounce at a time was too much. Wishful thinking? Also I didn't know how long to give it to her and is there a possibility of less than three or four times a day? (I'm with my goats like I am with my kids(human) I really don't like giving meds, especially ones that get that kind of reaction). The other thing that you mentioned was arthritis and I think that is something to be considered. Also going back to my original post a few weeks ago, The injury theory (pinched nerve?) might be a possibility. Thanks again for all the help. Please let me know how long she should be on the CMPK and if it could hurt her if it's not milk fever. JC | ||
| Elaine Elder New member Username: elaine Post Number: 40 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 72.152.162.89 Rating: N/A |
The menengeal worm or white tailed deer worm is a gastro intestinal parasite in deer only. The infected deer travel through your pasture, leaving infected droppings in dense underbrush where a tiny slug that likes damp places comes into contact with the feces. The slug lives on the under side of damp leaves. A goat comes along and eats the leaf and accidentally ingests the slug with it. the slug is only a quarter to a half inch long. The slug is digested but the parasite is released into the stomach. In goats, llamas and alpacas it is not in the correct host so it gets into the blood stream, wandering around looking for where it is supposed to be. Oral parasite control only works in the digestive system. it does not cross into the blood stream. To control the deer parasite in the blood stream the wormer has to be given by injection. The symptoms of menengeal parasite are hard to recognize before the parasite makes its way to the spinal cord, where it causes inflamation, which causes stroke like symptoms. Holding the head in an odd position was the first symptom I noticed. Dragging back feet was next. Not being able to walk in a straight line, They are looking one direction and their body goes a different way, they stop, turn toward their objective, and still can't make their body go where they want. Eventually, the head curves around and touches the side and just stays that way. After that they lose mobility. The whole body curls up. If you try to straighten them out the flail about like a fish out of water. I have had four goats get this. 2 lived, 2 did not. Since then, I have cleared the dead leaves and dense underbrush, to make it less hospitible to the slug. Usually after a few cold weeks kill off the slugs the danger of goats catching the worm go down until the next spring. None of mine lost any hair or wool. (Angora) The parasite can live in the blood stream for up to 30 days. Sometimes never making it to the spine. So an entire herd could be infected but only one or two have symptoms. All four of mine had their head curled around just be fore they lost total mobility. It takes months for them to recover from the final stages. The two I lost died the first day I found them all curled up. My big angora has just learned how to run again. Just not in a straight line. She has a zombie like gait and holds her head tilted to the side. It has been over a year since she got it. It took 6 months for her to be able to walk on her own. If your goat doesn't have any of these symptoms I would look at other options. If it has been below freezing at night for the last 30 days, you probably do not have this parasite. But if you believe she does have the deer worm you have to give the ivomec by injection. And you have to dose with Vitamin B. How old is your goat? is it possible she has arthritis in her back legs? I had a horse act the way you describe that had arthritis. I also had a horse with a thyroid condition that caused her to not be able to bend her legs correctly. | ||
| Ann Flickinger New member Username: annflickinger Post Number: 65 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 69.72.110.63 Rating: N/A |
Hi, Have you checked her belly for raw spots, that is how I discovered meningeal, the goats had huge raw spots that I did not notice at first, not all goats show symptoms, until it reaches the spine. Even though I am unsure of what you are dealing with I can tell you how to treat for Meningeal, so at the very least you can be prepared. Ivermectin cattle injectable at 1cc per 20 lbs ORALLY for 3 days. Then give Safeguard orally at 8cc per 100 lbs for 5 days. I treated for Meningeal and was afraid to give the injectable orally, but it is safe and worked. Please try using the weight calculation to get an accurate weight (here is a picture and how to do the calculation: http://www.tractorsupply.com/detail.asp?pcID=8&LearnID=37, because under dosing is worse than a little extra when it comes to ivomec (I used an extra cc each dosing). As a matter of fact after the first routine was done I had to do the ivomec again to kick it completely. My goats had somewhat different symptoms, so I am not sure what it is you are dealing with, but ivomec is safe. Hopefully,, one of the medics will see the post, I am sure they can give you more information. | ||
| Janette Cross New member Username: janettecross Post Number: 43 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 216.61.238.129 Rating: N/A |
after reading about the other doe with the limp back leg, I wanted to know if giving the Ivermectin 1% injectable at 3x cattle dose is what I should do instead of the 7.5cc I was going to give orally. I figure on a 150 lb doe this would be 4cc's? Can I give that subQ on a goat because the bottle says only give subQ on cattle and swine? Thanks | ||
| Janette Cross New member Username: janettecross Post Number: 42 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 216.61.238.129 Rating: N/A |
Sorry, I didn't log in on the last. I gave her one ounce (30cc)of the CMPK which is what the directions say (1 to 2 oz). Do I need to do that 3 or 4 times a day? We had quite a chase around the pen plus gagging, drooling, spitting and just generally letting me know that she didn't like it. It says to be careful that they don't aspirate it, but with all that snorting and hiccuping etc. I was worried that she would. Thanks -JC | ||
| (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 216.61.238.129 Rating: N/A |
I don't think it's spastic paresis because she doesn't have the hyper-extension of the leg or the muscle rigidity associated with it. I'm going to start her on the CMPK and worm her again with the Ivermectin for the next three days. Do you have any thoughts on drying her off? Too much stress right now or maybe it would be a relief? Thanks - JC | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 1669 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 72.185.188.253 Rating: N/A |
I would try treating for milk fever (hypocalcemia) giving her a dose of CMPK 3 to 4 times a day. One other thing I hadn't really thought of, and its a bit of a long shot, is spastic paresis. This is a neurological condition for which there is no real treatment. The goat will appear very posty legged in the rear, the legs will look very straight when viewed from the side. The hock and stifle joint will not have the usual bend and the goat will seem to be walking on its tip toes. She will appear to be trying to put all of its weight to the front. The back may be sensitive like you say it is because all of the muscles from the "lower" back down the back of the legs are tight, in spasm. She may sit like a dog, or try to stand with her rear feet higher even to teh point of seeking out a step on which to stand. Walking will appear stilted and stiff but running may appear more normal. Here is an article about this condition: http://kinne.net/paresis.htm There is no effective long term treatment. I did find that when I started giving my goats an adequate mineral I stopped getting goats with spastic paresis. Up until that time I had 3 bucks and possibly 2 does with it. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| Janette Cross New member Username: janettecross Post Number: 41 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 216.61.238.129 Rating: N/A |
Sorry I haven't answered, ice and the internet don't go together so I've been off line. I am giving her as a drench in the mornings, 12cc B-Complex, 20cc childrens Motrin, and about 15cc Nutradrench. I gave her 10cc of Ivermectin on Friday (orally). Maggie I posted on the message forum about this doe several weeks ago. She is a Lamancha doe that had just gotten over mastitis and was lifting/limping on her right rear leg. She had just come in to heat and you thought she might have gotten hit too hard by a herd mate. I agreed with that because it gets really rowdy in the barn during the "season". She got better (not completely) and I thought that was it but now she's lifting both rear legs intermitently and she is still not eating like she normally does. Someone on another post suggested deer worm and that's when I really started to worry. So, now she is still dipping when I run my hand along her spine - sometimes - Noah my lamancha wether does the same thing. She is acting like it's sensitive though but not all the time. She lifts each leg sort of like a twitch and will hold it off the ground for a few seconds then put it down. It doesn't seem to bother her to put weight on it, but walking seems to strain it because as she steps forward she dips her head like it hurts. She is not itching, she has no head jerking or pulling to the side. Her temp this morning was 102 and the temperature in the barn is running about 30 degrees. I wondered about milk fever because this started when she had mastitis which I treated first with Today for three days then BioMycin for three days (every third day). The CMT test showed clear. But the pulling up of her legs might be from discomfort in the udder or teats. I thought it might be her hooves, so I trimmed her feet several times. They were in bad condition when I bought her, so I can't get her back feet "straightened out" but they are better than they were. The hoof is peeling between the toes (?) and there are some round pitted areas on the heel, but no bad smell. I don't know what foot rot looks like but I could send a picture of her feet if you think it might be that. I'm trying to think of everything that has gone on with her in the last couple of months. The loss of appetite is the main reason I started to worry, because this goat never misses a meal! So, should I treat for milk fever or foot rot or deer worm or all of the above? And about the vet issue, I don't think that he will have a clue, he's a horse doc. So far with him a shot of Penicillen pretty much takes care of just about anything.Also I can't get her in because my driveway has become one long downhill sheet of ice. I sincerely thank all of you for your help. P.S. I am starting to dry her up by milking her out part way each morning ( I only milk once a day). I thought this might help the situation, but I don't want to stress her out. Any thoughts? Thanks again - JC} |