| Author | Message | ||
     Elaine Elder New member Username: elaine Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 68.19.67.57 Rating: N/A |
I am just in trouble. The leaves in Georgia are just now falling off the trees. It has been very warm (70+ degrees this past week). I have been buying feed from Southern States and Tractor Supply (Dumor). I do have a mineral block for them. I will change feed stores and go to what, Purina? I have not wormed them this fall. So I was going to do the Ivomec to prevent the Deer Parasite. I read somewhere that it is in tiny slugs that get under the leaves in fall and winter, and the goats eat them with the leaves. I was waiting for the leaves to be a problem before I gave them wormer. The article suggested worming with Ivomec every 30 days from leaves falling to first good freeze. Since we have at least a dozen deer that migrate through our property every day (They will be at the pond at 4:15 like clock work) and I have had the problem in the past, I was trying to prevent it. It is a lot of work nursing a goat with paralysis back to health. Even at 25 or 30 lbs. One of mine is Angora. She probably weighs 75 lbs. It was a good thing I had all that wool to hold on to. It took a month to get her back to eating on her own and 2 months before she could walk again. She still doesn't walk right and she lost bladder control. She is a mess but seems happy. | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 1529 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.215.105  Rating: N/A |
Lots of things can cause polio and this time of year it seems to be common. Anything that upsets the digestive system and causes the intestinal microbes to die off or stop producing thiamin is the cause. Have you gotten to the bottom of a bag of feed? It could be old and a bit moldy. New bag of feed? This could be moldy too. Corn is oten a culprit, too much molasses in the feed, and many feed companies change their feed formulation at this time of year. If you add sunflower seeds to your feed, they are often old, dirty and buggy this time of year. If you are getting to the bottom of your stack of hay it may be old and a bit moldy (is it dusty? This is mold!). One of mine used to get it from eating too many oak leaves at one time to the exclusion of anything else. Some oral meds (corid or oral antibiotics) can cause it, worms or coccidia is a common cause, not being able to go out and forage and getting less roughage (good roughage is essential!). A fever can cause it (and a fever is often one of the first symptoms, but not the intitial cause but makes matter worse...). Feeding silage is often a cause, maybe too many treats or feeding yard waste or garden waste. Do not give the ivomec, deworming when it is not necessary makes for very resistant worms and doe not PREVENT problems. We are running out of options for effective deworming (there is now alot of reistance to ivermectin, safeguard, panacur, even cydectin, valbazen, all the more safe ones) and giving a dewormer "just in case" is a very bad idea! Giving any drugs "just to be safe" is not a good idea. It doesn't DO anything! Both dewormers and B vitamins are eliminated from the system within hours. If the other goats are fine they don't need the B vitamins. These vitamins are not stored in the body for later use, they are manufactured by the gut microbes. Georgia is very mineral deficient. Do you offer a good loose mineral? If it is labeled for sheep and goats it is not good enough for goats. Any feed labeled for sheep and goats is not adequate either..... The Dumor feed and goat minerals from Tractor Supply does not have enough copper, the Goat mineral from SOuthern States is too low in copper too. A mineral deficiency can lead to poor digestion and feed utilization could lead to being prone to parasites and conditions like polio. Check the color of the lower inner eyelids. They should be deep rosy pink, at least as pink as ours if not a bit darker. If they are pale pink or white the goat is anemic and could have worms affecting ehr digestive microbes and her absorption of vitamins.... Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| Elaine Elder New member Username: elaine Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 68.19.67.57 Rating: N/A |
Thank you for your help. I ordered the more concentrate b1 from valleyvet.com. It should be here Monday. Until then, I will do as you have suggested with what I have. I picked her up with no effort and carried her to the barn, but I will try to get a more accurate weight on her. I will give the rest of the goats the Ivomec and a shot of B on Monday just for good measure. We will check for moldy hay in the corners of the goat shed, is there any thing else that causes Polio? | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 1528 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.215.105 Rating: N/A |
Yes that is thiamin in the chemical form. Probably no need for the ivermectin or the penicillin. Try the thiamin, you may see an improvement in as little as a hour or two. Give her 10 cc for the first 2 doses, give it in 2 different sites not all in the same place, by SQ injection. I am willing to bet she weighs more than you think. If you have a bathroom scale you can weigh her for more accurate dosing. 8 ccs would be barely enough for a 25 pound goat. My pygmies at only 12 to 13 inches tall (3 months old or so) weigh 20 to 25 pounds, mine are registered purebreds. Give it 3 times tommorrow. You can mail order the Fortified B complex (has 100 mg/ml) and it is better for almost everything, especially goat polio. You can give alot less and it only costs a couple dollars more per bottle. But use what you have for now. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| Elaine Elder New member Username: elaine Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 68.19.67.57 Rating: N/A |
My vitamin B Complex has thiamine hydrochloride 12.5 mg/ml. is this the same thing? She is very small her back is just to my knee. I have 4 the same size as her, so I know she is not malnourished or anything like that. Just really small. She is not over 25 lbs. So I would need to give her 8 cc every 4-6 hours through tonight. And tomorrow start 8 cc 3 times a day? Should I continue the Ivomec 1 cc per day? And penicillin 2 cc per day for the next week? | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 1526 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.215.105 Rating: N/A |
Sounds like goat polio, not meningeal worm. She is "stargazing" a neurological symptom, indicataive of polio. Menemgeal worm causes paralysis. You need to give alot more B Complex. If you are using the regular formula (has 12.5 mg/ml of thiamin, vitamin B1, check the label) you need to give 1 cc per 3 pounds every 4 to 6 hours for the first 24 hours then 2 to 3 times a day for 5 to 7 more days. If you have the FORTIFIED B Complex (has 100 mg/ml thiamin) you can give 1 cc per 20 pounds on the same schedule. Any thermometer will work fine, I prefer a digital myself. Insert it 1.5 to 2 inches into the rectum after lubing with a bit of vaseline. Normal is 101.5 to 103.5. The correct dose for ivermectin is 1 cc per 25 pounds (given orally for worms or by injection when attempting to treat menengeal worms). The dose for penicillin is 1 cc per 10 to 15 pounds by SQ inejction twice a day when treating a bacterial infection. My 3-4 month old pygmies weigh at least 25 pounds. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| Pam Martin (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 67.72.98.120 Rating: N/A |
Every goat owner needs to own a thermometer (just for the goats, of course). You can get a digital one with flexible tip at Walmart, or most dollar stores handle a digital of some type; just costs a few dollars and is a good investment. Sometimes the temp tells you alot about what is going on. I lubricate my thermometer with KY jelly or the like and the goat appreciates it. Normal range is generally 101.5 to 103.5, give or take. Have you checked to see exactly where the blood is coming from? I've never had the meningeal worm problem so can't help there. Maggie will surely have some good advice for you though. | ||
| Elaine Elder New member Username: elaine Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 68.19.67.57 Rating: N/A |
No vets in our area treat goats. I do not have a thermometer in the house or barn. When I get one, what kind and what should temp be? I had 3 goats last year with, what I think was Deer parasite. I am giving her the same as I did them. Injections of 1 cc Penecillin for the next week, 1 cc Ivomec next 3 days, 3 cc Vitimin B Complex for the next week. I do not know if it will help but I don't think it will hurt. Also I was reading other postings and saw for poisoning give Mineral oil. How much, and will vegatable oil work? She weighs about 25 lbs. I have some eletrolyte paste for horses. Will that help her? How much? Is there anything else I can do? | ||
| Dawn Summers New member Username: sweetcedarfarm Post Number: 49 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 172.162.100.115 Rating: N/A |
First thing is you really need to get her temp. I am only saying this because Maggie will need to know if she has a temp when she gets on later this afternoon. I really wish I could help you but the only thing I can suggest is to take her to a good vet. Dawn | ||
| Elaine Elder New member Username: elaine Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 68.19.67.57 Rating: N/A |
8 month old female goat standing next to fence with her nose turned all the way up. She appeared to be licking the pressure treated post. I nudged her away from the fence. She was sluggish and hot to the touch. Even her horns were hot. (I do not have a thermometer) Her mouth seemed to be bleeding. She also head blood at the base of her horns. I put her in a stall in the barn. She went around the whole stall with her head stuck up in the air nibling at everything. She is not eating anything. She chews on stuff but spits it out. I gave her injections of Ivomec, Vitimin B and Penicillin. My first thought was she had gotten caught in the fence and hurt her mouth and horns getting herself loose. But the rest of her behavior is bizarre. So I don't really know what is wrong with her. |