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     Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 902 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141  Rating: N/A |
It is not just overfeeding or changing the grain or hay. Parasites can cause this, anything that gives the goat diarrhea or constipation. Finding some particularly tasty forage and overdoing it. A fever can cause it, something in the water, some weed he ate, a mineral deficiency or a sudden addition of minerals (they gorge on the salt and upset the microbes). Molasses in feed or minerals has been implicated, do you feed a sweet feed? Golden Blend is sweetened with molasses too, perhaps he overdid it. You may not be able to prevent it from ever happening again. It is pretty much a fact of life with goat ownership, it is going to happen occasionally. You tip the scale in your favor by being careful what you feed and when, by keeping control of parasites, by offering a good mineral, and by vaccinating properly. Goats should be vaccinated at 8 to 12 weeks, then a booster given 21 days later, then many programs recommend boostering every 6 months. If the goat has an unknown vaccine history then you vaccinate as for a kid. If they have gone more than a year you should start over and vaccinate and booster. Even then the protection may only be 50 to 80 percent. Just the one shot does very little...and that's all he had. Perhaps if you get one that you treat for bloat again, go ahead and give the antitoxin and start the penicillin right away. I always check the goats temp at that time too. Simple bloat rarely causes any fever, and treatment brings almost immediate relief and a return to normal. Entero usually has a high fever right at the start (it falls later as the systems fail), before any other signs become more apparent than a simple bellyache. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| sophie (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 69.19.14.25 Rating: N/A |
Maggie, you're a treasure! Much is getting clearer, although there's still the question as to why their rumen stopped working. How can we prevent this from happening again? Our goats always get the same ration, served individually. The hay we use is nice and fresh smelling, no mold. Our "pasture" is mostly brush, lots of young oaks, blackberries, and weeds. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge! Sophie | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 899 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
I would say all of the goats died of entero. An acute case of entero can kill in only hours. All of the symptoms point to entero. The antitoxin prolonged his life a bit, but likely his liver and kidneys were already so damaged he wouldn't have survived. Entero can have many symptoms that mimic other conditions. At first it can look like simple bloat and many goat people give the antitoxin after a bout with bloat. Bloat can cause entero because the digestive tract stops moving for a time allowing the clostridium bacteria to proliferate. Entero can look like pneumonia at first because the goat will be breathing fast and possibly labored and have a high fever. Later it can have neurological signs such as being down, throwing the head back or drawing it into the shoulder as the microbes that normally produce B1 (thiamin) die off in the stressed out digestive tract. In the end it is usually extremely painful the goat will moan and scream, have convulsions, labored breathing (the heart sac fills up with fluid in the end) perhaps a short coma and death. I have never saved a kid with entero but some others have. I have prolonged the life with using the antitoxin and may if I had started it earlier I would have had more success. I have started being religious about vaccinating my does 4 to 6 weeks before delivery and giving the antitoxin to newborns to 10 weeks old at birth and every 3 weeks (or so) until I can vaccinate at 12 to 14 weeks. Even then the vaccine may only be 40 to 80 percent effective and you MUST booster it at least once 21 days after the first dose. The microbe that causes entero is everywhere and it naturally lives in the gut of goats. When the gut is functioning normally it stays cleaned out enough for the clostridial microbes to be few in number. But if the gut slows or stops for a time the microbes flourish. Clostridial microbes can reproduce every 8 minutes in the right conditions... SMZ is a bit strong for goats, can cause an allergic reaction and is essentially the same as Albon, Dimethox and Sulmet. They are all sulfa drugs. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| sophie (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 69.19.14.37 Rating: N/A |
Luc passed away 2pm yesterday. He was the first baby goat on our farm, and our kids are devestated. I did give him another dose of antitoxin and baking soda in water. Called an experienced goat breeder, and she said that it might be coccidiosis and to give him SMZ tablets. But we only have Albon, so that's what we gave him. I still don't think it was coccidia, though. His eye lids were very pink, no diarrhea. He pooped only a few dry pellets. His temp went to 104.4, but yesterday it was a very hot day, around 100deg. The last hour or so he was moaning and screaming. Gave him some children's moatrin, but it didn't seem to help. When I helped him up for the last time, his legs wouldn't hold him anymore, his body started to shiver, especially his behind, then he faded away with labored breathing. I'd really love to know what this was. We had two other one-year-old goats die over night three months ago. They were healthy and eating the night before, and dead in the morning. A necropsy found nothing. The doc suspected entero, but so fast? Plus we're really careful with the grain. We have it locked away, and Luc only got 1 cup a day. Very grateful for any pointers. We're having dairy goats now for two years, but there seems to be still so much we have to learn. Thank you, Sophie | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 891 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
It does sound like entero give the penicillin twice a day. Gvie another dose of antitoxin. Give milk of Magnesia or baking soda and water for rumen acidosis. Entero attacks the kidneys this could be why he hasn't urinated. Call the vet. Most large animal vets have emergency hours. Just because a feed has ammonium chloride doesn't mean it has enough. Feeding too much grain can cause blockage. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| sophie (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 66.82.9.88 Rating: N/A |
Dear Maggie: So grateful for you being out there for all of us in need of goat advise! We have an year old Nubian/Alpine weather that seemed a bit bloated yesterday, didn't eat, didn't want to get up. Gave him 1/2 cup of peanut oil, massaged him, gave him baking soda, massaged again for about 5 min front legs up. By the smell we could tell some gas was escaping. This morning he's down again. Same treatment, but now he's very uncomfortable, screams when we lift his front up. Not too much gas this time, but he doesn't look that bloated either, though his rumen feels hard. We gave him 15cc CD antitoxin (he got the vaccine mid April, but only one dose and for the first time) and 20cc penicillin. His temp is 101.5 with fast breathing and a bit of muscle twitching. I haven't seen him pee. His penis area is dry, can't feel any hard spots that would indicate a blockage. Our goat feed says it contains Ammonium Chloride, and he's on Golden Blend mineral. Anything else we have to look for/be doing? Is it just us, or do these things always happen over the weekend, or when the vet is not available? Very worried about this little guy! Thanks again so much for all your help! Sophie |