| Author | Message | ||
     Theresa Chandler New member Username: tchandler6 Post Number: 76 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 207.69.137.21 Rating: N/A |
If this is a doe that you really like, I wouldn't think of not breeding her again due to the oversized single this year. I had the same thing happen to me last year. My wonderful alpine, milking nanny had a huge 14 pound single kid last year, which was not in position correctly, and I could not get him out, had to have the vet come out, and to my horror, he had to cut him out... I hope that was my first and last experience of such an awful thing; so needless to say I was really leary of breeding her again. However, I gave her another try, and this year she gave me FOUR healthy kids. So, don't be discouraged, things just go wrong sometimes, but it really wasn't her fault. | ||
| (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 71.214.108.217 Rating: N/A |
Thank-you both for all your help. I will look at the loose mineral I give to make sure it has the correct copper amount. I do not think the vet gave her any pain medication other than the locals and generals, I will talk to him about the banamine and more penicilin. | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 803 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141  Rating: N/A |
Sufficient selenium and copper play major roles in fertility and the viability of fetuses too. I started getting alot less single kids when I got my selenium and copper straightened out. Having a dead kid will block or reduce the natural progression of hormones that brings on normal labor too. They definitely won't push hard until something enters the cervix but they will push some as the uterus continues to contract. She also knew she was supposed to be having a baby and pushing was part of the deal. If the doe makes a good recovery there is no real reason not to use her for breeding. Accidents happen, nutritional deficits can be corrected. She obviously has the capacity to pass a large kid... Continue the penicillin twice a day for 5 days and get her some banamine for today and at least tomorrow too. You and your vet did a good job getting that kid out without having to put her through the trauma of a c section. Dote on her a bit, she knows she was supposed to have a kid to mother. And milk out that colostrum to freeze! The drugs she had (and will be getting) won't affect it. Don't let this be any more of a loss than it has to be. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| Don (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 172.162.65.76 Rating: N/A |
Glad to hear you were able to save the doe. I had an isolated incidence of this happening to a doe of mine in the past and heard of it happen to others. A single kid usually develops extra large sometimes too large for a normal delivery. Also other problems may compound the difficulty to birth. Lack of proper dilation and improper fetus position, all which seemed your doe experienced. Wonder if the vet gave her a shot of Banamine to reduce pain and inflamation. | ||
| (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 71.214.108.217 Rating: N/A |
I managed to massage her cervix open, much to my surprise. But her contractions never became any stronger although still about 5 minutes or less apart. I still could not get in far enough to feel a kid. After speaking with my vet again I decided to take her in to him. His hand was too big and with alot of struggle I managed to finally get mine in. The single, very large kid was dead and the head was stuck under the pelvic bones upside down competing with the hind legs to come out, almost totally folded in half. It took us about 20 minutes to get the kid turned after attempting numerous times to snare the head. I finally got ahold of the huge single doelings hind legs and pulled only to have it get stuck at the shoulders and again at the head, it took both of us to pull it out. The doe has had alot of trama but is Ok so far. She did recieve local anesthetic and after that was not enough and we knew the kid was dead, general anesthetic. She also received a shot of hormones and penicilin. The vet thinks because of the position of the kid, and that nothing was pushing on the cervix is why she did not have good contractions. This doe will not be used for breeding anymore. The vet thought that the kid had been dead for atleast a couple days already for some reason. My other 4 does kidded last week with no major problems and they all have very healthy active kids which makes me think this was a position or other internal problem other than a nutritional one but I could be wrong. | ||
| Don (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 172.162.65.76 Rating: N/A |
I read an article that ketosis or hypocalcemia can also contribute to dilation problems. If there are other symptoms indicating the above condition, then oral administration of 15 cc's of CMPK or MFO every 45 minutes for as long as five or six hours may help open the cervix. If inducing labor is necessary... Intramuscular injection of 10 cc dexamethazone and 2 cc lutalyse should cause cervical dilation in 24 to 48 hours. Also a caesarian section as Maggie pointed out, may be a last resort. | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 801 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
You are in a very selenium and copper deficient area. Many mineral mixes do not have enough selenium in them due to excessive government regulation of this mineral. You likely need to give BoSe twice a year or some other form of selenium supplement. Many feed companies also have not "gotten the word" that goat NEED copper and still make their "goat" minerals with nearly NO copper. Please check yours. If it is labeled for sheep and goats it is WAY TOO LOW in copper. Do you have an exact breeding date for her? Here is a link to an article about copper deficiency in pygmy goats (it cites an example in a herd in western WA state). http://www.kinne.net/cu-def.htm Good luck and let me know how things progress. Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 71.214.108.217 Rating: N/A |
I am on SW Washington state. She has always had access to granulated mineral with selenium. I have been speaking with the vet and I went in and the cervix is closed, I attempted to manual massage to try to open, I will call the vet back and try again. | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 798 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.216.141 Rating: N/A |
"Lazy" kidding is often due to a mineral deficiency. The muscles don't function properly. It is often selenium and/or copper. If she is pushing she should pass a kid within 30 minutes. The mucus plug is thick and white. The mucus plug can pass a day, a week, or even a month before kidding. If the mucus you see is clear yellow and like egg whites though this is not mucus plug and her labor may be stalled. The kids could be out of position or her cervix may not be opening. If she is pushing at all she should pass a kid within 30 minutes. Not much you can do about a mineral deficiency now except be aware that she may not progress at all and she may need a vet's assistance even a c section. Be sure she has access to a loose mineral with 900 to 1500 ppm copper and you may need to give BoSe (selenium and vitamin E) once or twice a year. Where are you located? Maggie Leman Goat 911 Capri Medic | ||
| lexi67 (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 71.214.108.217 Rating: N/A |
I have a 2 year old doe that has been in a lazy labor for about 12 hours. She pushes but barely. Contractions are sometimes 5 min apart and sometimes 15 minutes apart. They do not seem to hurt her and she does not strain that hard but there is obvious pushing. She lost her mucous plug about 4 hours ago and now has the string of it but and the lazy pushing continues. She was up all night doing this. Is it possible that she is prematurely pushing due to the fact that the mucous plug was so recently released? I have gone in with fingers only and could feel nothing. She has kidded before, also lazily but not this bad. |