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     Ann Flickinger New member Username: annflickinger Post Number: 9 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 66.187.171.249 Rating: N/A |
I will keep all this information on hand. I wormed my little one like you said and checked everyone's eyelids. his did seem a bit paler than the others and I checked his temp, it was 102 and I think that is perfectly normal. I am planning to have their fecals all checked in two weeks to see where we stand. I also gave him a dose of goat Nutri-Drench to help him along. He is still wild and crazy though, which I think is a good sign. I had a problem with the 5 month old this morning. he seemed to have gotten chilled through the night and spent most of the day thawing out in the sun. During the morning feed it took him twice as long as it normally does to eat and he seemed slow. You see he was shaven very closely for a meat show just before I bought him. the hair is coming back fast, but he has almost no protection. He seemed fine later in the day (I was worrying and preparing for what might come next) and I made sure I put the windows back in the barn so that there was no possibility of a breeze blowing through. I gave him a dose of Nutri-Drench too and bedded the stall area deeply tonight. I have been thinking that I might train them to cart, but don't know where to begin, but there is lots of time for that. Thanks again for being so helpful. | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 5 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.205.236 Rating: N/A |
For young wethers I usually recommend feeding grain twice a day about 1 to 1.5 cups for your standard sized guys, about as much as they will clean up in 5 to 10 minutes. The hay you are feeding sounds fine. After the boys are about 18 months old you might cut the grain back to about a cup or less, wethers are not "working goats" most of the time and don't need the extra. This certainly wouldn't apply to pack or cart wethers! Make sure they have an adequate loose mineral all the time and pasture or browse access and they should be happy and healthy. Being prepared to deworm 4 times a year and at least once yearly fecal exams should do it. In between fecal checks you can check the color of their lower inner eyelids when you trim their feet (every 8 weeks or so) to give a a good indication on their parasite load. The membranes should be bright rosy pink like ours. If they are pale then deworm and check the membranes again in 2 weeks or so to make sure color is returning. Do not rotate dewormers each time you treat (for your horse either). This was a marketing ploy by drug manufacturers and a animal husbandry nightmare. Use a dewormer until it is becoming ineffective or for at least a year and then switch. If you use several different types, consatantly rotating the worms become resistant to all of them at the same time, leaving you with VERY few options. Watch for excessive scratching. I watch for how many "lick marks" a goat has on their fur. If I see more than one or two I suspect lice. FOr lice I do like to use either the Ivermectin pour on as a pour on (give 3 times the cattle dose by weight) or one of the synergized delicers for cattle (also a pour on) and treat once weekly for about 3 weeks. With my large herd I usually delice the whole herd 2 to 3 times a year to keep them in check. Have you thought about training them as pack or cart wethers? Sounds like they would be ideal! | ||
| Ann Flickinger New member Username: annflickinger Post Number: 8 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 66.187.162.12 Rating: N/A |
Maggie you could write a novel and I would read every page. I am trying to do what is best for my goats and my horse as well. I have had horses all my life so I have a good handle on them, but the goats are a whole different story and rather new. The more I learn the less I feel I know about them. I worry all the time if I am doing the right thing for the goats. So I am diligent in doing whatever it takes to keep them healthy. I will check my minerals to make sure of the copper content. do you have feeding recommendations? the type, protein content, etc.? I know I cannot go back in time and bottle feed my baby, but is there more I can offer to help him along now? He is very strong, but I want to give him the best shot at staying healthy. He is such a baby, every evening he lays on my lap (well only half of him fits these days) and I cuddle him. I think it helps sooth and comfort him. I am going to check on them all now. Thanks so much again! | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.205.236 Rating: N/A |
I don't use a medicated feed (or any medication) because I don't believe in giving a medication needlessly. Kids don't usually eat enough of it to do what it is supposed to do at the age they need the most protection (from birth to 8 weeks old when they are first exposed). Many people THINK their goats can't get sick from cocci if their goat is on a medicated feed (WRONG!). Mnay people think that a medicated feed will TREAT a cocci infection. It only HELPS prevent a problem (in goats that actually eat enough to do the job). So I see it as a waste as I may wind up treating for cocci anyway. Just my opinion though, take it or leave it. I believe that some of these medicated feeds are very dangerous for horses too... The rumen is really only beginning to develop at 7 weeks old. Even though they seem to be eating well and even ruminating they are still getting a large portion of their nutrition from their mothers. It would be like cutting off an infant human the minute they start on solid food or weaing a puppy at 3weeks when they are first eating mush. I don't ever wean my doe or wether kids, their dams do it for me at about 5 to 6 months old or so. Those little bucklings though have gotta move out at 12 weeks (they can be fertile then and their moma and sisters are such hussies!) My doelings and wethers grow very well with the added nutrition. And I just be sure the moms are getting enough to eat to feed those growing kids. They adjust faster to a new farm too when they are older, they are much more independent. All goats should be dewormed the day they make a move from one farm to another (or any time they have been stressed such as kidding or after an illness), the stress of the move makes parasites more active. Deworm them both now. Tapeworms are not as harmful to goats as those that suck blood for their nutritional needs. Tapeworms live in the intestines and digest the same food as the goat. So a well fed goat usually has it to spare. You can use Synanthic Cattle drench or Benzelmin paste wormer for horses, give 2 to 3 times the cattle or horse dose by weight, it is very safe, even at 50 times this dose. Be sure to give enough. Give it for 3 days and repeat in 2 weeks. This will also treat most other parasites so no need to give both. Many medications come in several forms. Take the ivermectin, it comes as an injectable, a pouron with an additive to it that makes it absorb through the skin faster, as a paste for horses, as heartworm pills for dogs (this is a very tiny dose, dogs are very sensitive to ivermectin). The reason I (and many others) recommend using the injectable as an oral med is because it is quite concentrated, meaning you give less, and it is very safe. Now you wouldn't want to inject any of the other forms! But if a drug is safe to take orally you can always use the injectable form. Why pay for needless filler? One last thing, be sure your mineral is in a loose form and has enough copper for goats (about 800 to 1800 ppm). Copper plays a very important role in immune system health and resistance to parasites. I can really write a book sometimes can't I? Sorry to go on so long, hope it is helpful. | ||
| Ann Flickinger New member Username: annflickinger Post Number: 7 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 66.187.162.12 Rating: N/A |
Maggie thank you for supplying me with all the information and so fast. I never knew that some injectables can be given orally. I am almost afraid to do it. I am a little worried with such a young goat. I made a slight miscalculation of the age, he is 4 1/2 months old and I got him when he was 7 weeks of age, the breeder said he was ready to go, because he was eating well on his own and was quite a big boy for his age. I did almost go out and buy him a bottle and start feeding him that way after that first terrible day. I was very worried the first 2 weeks I had him, because he was so tiny and seemed so scared, but as soon as I turned him loose with my aged horse and my 4 year old wether he came along fine until now. As a matter of fact he was the boss from the start. I did get another goat (5 month old 1/4 boer and 3/4 Nubian wether) 2 weeks ago and they are now in together. The newbie had already been raised on the medicated feed + all grain and it seemed much more palatable and that is one reason why I was making the change. The new goat has been fine since we got him so I didn't think that something he may have had previously was transmitted over just the last couple of days of being together. Should I also deworm him for tapeworms? Can a goat overdose on the medicated feed? Just trying to cover all the angles. You are so helpful and a comfort, these goats are strictly for pleasure and I get great pleasure in seeing them happy and healthy. | ||
| Maggie Leman Moderator Username: maggieleman Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.111.205.236 Rating: N/A |
If you are keeping the feed outside in an unairconditioned place it may be getting moldy too, especially if you are keeping it in the same container as the last feed. I have to keep my feed in my airconditioned garage or it spoils in only a few days. If it has been 3 months since his last deworming likely he is getting wormy again. The swollen looking abdomen may be a sign of worms too. You are looking at the area of his rumen, it is right in front of the left hip. I would deworm with Ivomec Injectable for Cattle, give 1 cc per 25 pounds, give it orally as a drench (give at least 1 cc no matter how much he actually weighs). Repeat in 2 weeks. Most kids need to be dewormed at least every 60 days or so until they are a year old. If you are mixing the medicated feed with all grain feed he is not going to get enough of the "medication" to do any good. Better to give a once weekly dose of a sulfa drug such as Albon or Sulmet 12.5% drinking water solution for prevention, give 1 cc per 5 pounds. Most goats develop a pretty good immunity to cocci by the time they are 6 to 8 month old. Give it straight from the bottle do not dilute it. It doesn't do any good to add it to their water, it tastes terrible and goats will go without drinking rather than drink enough to do any good. If he does break with diarrhea from cocci you can use the sulfa drinking water solution to treat it too. In that case you give at one cc per 5 pounds for 5 consecutive days. Might not hurt to begin treatment for cocci, and then put him on a once a week preventative dose after. You can deworm and treat for cocci at the same time. Was he really weaned at only 4 weeks (one month old) or did you bottle feed for a time? I never wean before 12 weeks and I don't buy a goat before they are that old either unless they are on a bottle. | ||
| Ann Flickinger New member Username: annflickinger Post Number: 6 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 66.187.162.12 Rating: N/A |
Just when you think things are ok something else happens. About a week ago I noticed that my 4 month old Nubian wether was not really acting quit himself. he was not maaing and he wasn't chewing his cud too much, he just seemed down. I also noticed that directly in front of his left hip each day he would get a hard bulge, but it would go down late in the day. I started to dig through his feed bag and although I scoop it from the middle for feeding I noticed it was very moldy around the outer edges. I immediately pitched it and gave him probios, but I had no other food but a new mix (all-grain and pelleted medicated for cocci) goat food I was starting to feed so gave him smaller portions of the new food to introduce him to it and for the past week he was fine and was happy, talking and running, chewing cud and playing. today I added a little more of the medicated pellets to his food and by this evening he has diarreha not bad yet, more like dog poop. I gave him probios again, but this time he spit some of it out. He is still active and seems happy, but I am first worried about the mold in his other food and if that could be affecting him now after a week or is it because I recently made the food change and then changed it a bit more to soon. I have had him for almost 3 months and he was wormed and had a negative fecal at his last home. I don't know that he has ever been treated for tape worms, but I have not seen any on him or on my other goats. he is not skinny, but he eats like he is starved even though he is getting plenty of food and his has develpoed a little bit of a belly. he gets hay (timothy, alfalfa and grass mix) free choice, grained 2 times a day and pasture. he also has minerals and sodium bicarbonate free choice. he is about 50 lbs. what is going on with him and what more can I do for him? |